Discussion: Freedom of sex

  1. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 - 12:38
    AfricaNews editor
    Video and text by Sybilla Claus
    Gays and lesbians live under threat in Africa. Even in Western societies they struggle with prejudice within their communities. It is time for Africans to recognize that free choice of sexuality is also a human right.
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    The gay fellows out there really need your help. Have your say.

    See previous discussions

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  1. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 14:05
    Shane Wilson
    Image of Shane Wilson

    Shane Wilson
    5 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008
    Johannesburg South Africa

    I live in South Africa, and we gay people are protected under our constitution.

    Even under Apartheid, where even to BE gay was a crime, me and Sipho were proud of being a gay couple, even through all the legalised and other hate that was directed against us. He and I loved each other deeply, and we were never ashamed of our love for each other, even if it brought danger to us (which it often did). We fought hard for freedom, not only for South Africa, but for ourselves as gay men ... and for all the other gays, too.

    We were two very ordinary men living very ordinary lives, who just happened to be in love with each other.

    I wrote this poem in memory of all of my friends who died fighting for our freedom, but especially for my boi Sipho who was murdered by apartheid agents in August 1993, just short of our tenth anniversary as a couple, and less than a year before our first democratic elections. We were both struggle activists.

    I still love Sipho, and long daily just to hear his voice again, to see his smile, to feel his touch. He taught me so much about the value of person, and about rising above the petty hatreds that we, as people, so love to fill our lives with. He was one of God's Gentlemen, and I am a far better person for having experienced the boundless joy of being his special boi.

    We gays are everywhere, in all societies. We are made by straight people! ... so you will NEVER be rid of us, no matter what you do. Increasingly we demand our rights to be who we are.

    Thanks, Sipho, you made a difference to all who knew you. Luvya umfana.

    Requiem for a Hero

    Noble comrade warrior,
    With twisted limbs athwart your breached body,
    Down deep into the dark, welcoming Afric' earth
    Your lifesblood slowly trickles.
    Your heroic soul rises
    From that cruelly shattered form,
    Which once we knew ~ and loved ~ as you,
    To be gathered to your forebears,
    There to gladly stand amidst the thronging heroes
    Who so proudly died before.

    But though your cold brow shall never know
    a loving mother's smoothing touch,
    Nor misted father's eye your final resting place behold,
    Yet we believe that you
    ~ and those that died with you ~
    Still walk your birthright land,
    And have at last received,
    From the warm, compassionate heart of Mother Africa,
    Eternal Freedom.

    And we, who now can walk our treasured land freed of oppressive yoke
    ~ free because you died ~
    Hear, in parents' easy laughter and in schoolchild's merry song,
    A faint, far-off paean of joyous liberty.
    We hear long-dead voices in the droning of the bees.
    In the wind, a ceaseless, ghostly singing,
    as from unchained souls.

    Within our hearts
    You will not die.

    Shane William Wilson.
    Johannesburg, 1995.
    IF IT ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE, IT IS MOST L;IKELY A LIE.
  2. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 14:34
    alibalunywa2
    Image of alibalunywa2

    Ali Balunywa
    13 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2007
    Almere

    I am not a homosexual, but a human rights activist. I would like fellow heterosexuals out there to imagine that homosexuals were the majority and they outlawed heterosexuality. How would you feel?

    A. Balunywa
    Netherlands
  3. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 15:14
    John M
    Image of John M

    John Mahoro
    54 berichten
    Lid sinds July 2007

    The issue of homosexuality goes beyond human rights, at least that is how I understand it. If we should talk of freedom of sex then we should also accept incests (brothers and sisters having sex and marrying each other, parents having sex with their children -male or female, etc). Many would be shocked to see a 50-year old father taking her 20-year daughter or son to bed. Why while both father and son/daughter have freedom of sex and are all adults? Because is contrary to human nature.

    The argument that same sex is as old as humankind is not the strong one because the fact that evil is as old as humankind does not make evil legal and acceptable. Incest to is as old as mankind. What about sex with animals?
    Et in terra pax hominubus...
  4. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 16:11
    Jack Meena
    Image of Jack Meena

    Jack Meena
    30 berichten
    Lid sinds February 2008
    Dar es Salam

    I know and have seen homos in Africa. When I was teaching at a J-School in Dar es Salaam, a young boy (18 years) was once reported to the Principal of being asking fellow classmates (boys) to have sex with him. It was shocking to the Principal- a woman and muslim follower! When she wanted my views on the incident, I simply asked her to use her Counselling skills and experience to talk to the boy. The boy confessed to the Principal that "I have tried to do away with this behaviour but I simply can't! My parents and relatives have tried all they could but you know I am human being and it just have to happen...!". Honestly, the Principal was shocked!

    In 1999, I went to an open pack in Southern Amsterdam with a dutch friend. It was summer time and everybody was enjoying the sun. While at the Pack, a Ugandan colleague came and whispered "Jack see what those guys are doing there!" and when I turned my eyes to that direction I saw two gentoement kissing each other tenderly and my disbelief and culturally shocked I yelled out, "What, what you guys doing?". Everybody looked at me with a get lost look, you know what I mean, to the embarrasment of the Dutch colleague. The Dutch friend said to me, "Jack this is Holland, a free country, let the people enjoy themselves." We then quickly left the park and went back to Amsterdam Central. The Ugandan friend was going to Arhus, Denmark so we decided to have a farewell luch at a hotel. Still shocked with the images which I saw, two white women were seated at the opposit table talking at suddenly they started cuddling, kissing and what have you. Reading what was going over our minds, the friend said quietly, "see Jack what I was telling you? this is very normal and people are open about it." We eat our food and left.

    Leave aside the Red Street brothels or if you like cages, homosexuality and lesbianism were one of the cultural shocks which I encountered hwile in the Nertherland and other European cities I went. In Africa these things are there we can't deny them but they are condemned because people don't wonna talk about it and therefore a taboo. Myself, honestly, I can't think about it because religion and culture, to which I subscribe to has never taught me such things. I believe in the freedom of expression, freedom of association and have respect to other people's style of life as long as they don't interfere with my way of life.

    Cheers,

    Jack.
  5. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 18:01
    Lekan
    Image of Lekan

    Lekan Otufodunrin
    16 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2007
    Lagos

    Freedom of sex? I share the concern that we should not deny anybody the freedom of relationship but there is need for caution.
    We cannot afford to watch our cherished values become history all in the name of freedom.
    My religious beliefs does not approve of same sex relationship but as a journalist I do my best to accept homosexuals for what they claim to be.
    I have reported about same sex relationship and belong to an organisation that gave an award to a group of fo Men having Sex with Men (MSM) for their contribution to curbing spread of HIV/AIDS in Nigeria.
    What has however bothered me like someone once wondered is the danger in approving such sexual practice.
    Imagine if we all become homosexuals, gays or lesbians? What is the future for humanity?
    If people claim to prefer same sex relationships to hetrosexual relationship, why are they still interested in having children?

    Lekan Otufodunrin
  6. Posted on Monday 18 August 2008 21:02
    Sam Banda Junior
    Image of Sam Banda Junior

    Sam Banda Junior
    1,155 berichten
    Lid sinds February 2008
    Malawi, Central Africa

    Reading the story from one of the gays, its really interesting but I am afraid this is still a taboo in Africa and I don't think its a matter of having the same rights in this case.

    Its a straight forward issue, we all have freedom as prescribed in the Human Rights charter but I say no to gay. Putting rights on these people would mean turning our continent into chaos.

    The Bible clearly tells us that marriage is only through man and woman and this is what the maker of Heaven and Earth signed for. God never signed for a gay marriage hence the word taboo coming in, so there nothing og having equal rights.

    I am not talking in Christian terms only here even Muslims, the Koran do not subscribe to this. These people don't need rights and infact its time we fought for the end of gay marriages and relationships.

    Sam Banda Jnr.
    S. BANDA JNR
  7. Posted on Tuesday 19 August 2008 18:23
    Evans Wafula
    Image of Evans Wafula

    Evans Wafula
    158 berichten
    Lid sinds July 2007

    In Kenya, the country was taken by storm when during the World Social Forum, Homos agitated for their human rights. They indeed staged a protest march demanding that their human and sexual rights to be recognized by the government.

    Parents, friends and the government was caught by surprise.

    Although this seemed as a new developement in Kenya, l think it was evident of how Kenya as a society has lived to develope.

    To me, this was part of the larger global village. It is evident that when society opens up such things will obviously be seen happening.

    However, my culture and tradition prohibits such issues like same sex, and its regarded as a taboo. Infact, in my tribe (the Luhyia) of Kenya. Such people are still regarded as evil and suffering from witchcraft. To allow them to live in your midist is like disregarding the values and norms of a straight life.

    Such people cannot be allowed to be elders or lead the community or marry from the community.

    Its high time though that such debates be allowed in our African communities.
  8. Posted on Wednesday 20 August 2008 14:45
    quorora
    Image of quorora


    1 berichten
    Lid sinds November 2007

    Thanks for this topic. I think these people need help because of the nature of their problem. I know they do not want to call it a problem but the truth is that they have an abnormality which is also sinful. I have seen people getting healed from this problem through counseling here in Uganda. Going spiritual, they do posses an evil spirit which we call 'kahuura' in many languages of western and central Uganda. Prayer can help in this case.
  9. Posted on Wednesday 20 August 2008 15:19
    Daniel
    Image of Daniel

    Daniel Nana Aforo
    140 berichten
    Lid sinds October 2007
    Accra, Ghana

    I am just shocked to see that the same sex discussion has been posted on Africa News. Indeed, as a Pan Africanist ,I think this is a shame to be on our site to give credence to such barbaric adventure. We are Africans and should understand it better: even animals would not sleep with their own sex. For the whole month I would be worried if I open the site to read news.
    Daniel Nana Aforo
  10. Posted on Wednesday 20 August 2008 15:57
    Blessing
    Image of Blessing


    1 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008

    Dear Lekan
    You seem to think human kind will be extinguished if everybody turns gay or lesbian. It would be a bit boring 100 % gays, wouldn’t it? And maybe you would have to fight for your straight rights. Usually about ten percent of the population is gay.
    Anyway, there is a more important reason for you to not worry.
    This is reality, and yesterdays news: we will have 7 billion people in 2012, 8 billion people in 2025! The fastest growth is in Africa. in 2050 2 billion, twice as much as 2008.
    Imagine what that means. So many Africans are dependent on food aid as it is. Food prices are rising, and so is poverty on the continent. Shouldn’t governments start with a serious birth control policy, instead of damning homosexuality?
    Why is only Rwanda with its max 3 children ideas taking the issue seriously?

    And for your question: why do homo’s want children?
    They love them, just like you probably do. Wanting to raise a family has no connection with your sexual preference.
    All the best to you
    Blessing

    Dear Daniel
    I am shocked that your message is so full of hate and intolerance. If that is Pan Africanism to you, it doesnot sound so inviting.
    Ps animals do sleep with their own on occasion! it is just nature.
  11. Posted on Thursday 21 August 2008 14:23
    Shane Wilson
    Image of Shane Wilson

    Shane Wilson
    5 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008
    Johannesburg South Africa

    quote:
    John M wrote on 18 August 2008 @ 15:14:
    The issue of homosexuality goes beyond human rights, at least that is how I understand it. If we should talk of freedom of sex then we should also accept incests (brothers and sisters having sex and marrying each other, parents having sex with their children -male or female, etc). Many would be shocked to see a 50-year old father taking her 20-year daughter or son to bed. Why while both father and son/daughter have freedom of sex and are all adults? Because is contrary to human nature.

    The argument that same sex is as old as humankind is not the strong one because the fact that evil is as old as humankind does not make evil legal and acceptable. Incest to is as old as mankind. What about sex with animals?

    "The issue of homosexuality goes beyond human rights"    : This is one of the least educated and most ill-informed comments that I have read on these pages in a long time. The entire argument is flawed from its very first line, and the rest of JohnM's argument degenerates into something little better than blatant bigotry. There is no reason or sense at all in what he writes.goat rape.jpg
    IF IT ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE, IT IS MOST L;IKELY A LIE.
  12. Posted on Thursday 21 August 2008 15:03
    joan
    Image of joan

    Joan Wangui
    29 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008

    Well....the issue of homosexuality in Africa is not a new phenomenon and has excited deep and often extreme reactions in Africa. In my country Kenya, homosexuals are often discussed in hush tones by members of the society. As much as it is a taboo or if you like, a crime, the Kenyan society hasn't come out in the open to condemn the act and this leaves me wondering whether we really condone homosexuality or otherwise. The only time our society awakens to the act is when we hear of the infamous consecration of gay bishops by some Anglican churches in the west. During this time, we throw tantrums and all sots of condemnation, while ignoring our ‘own’ gay brothers.
    The bible stipulates clearly that marriage shall be between a man and a woman. Anyone going against this knowledge is living in their own world.
    Sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex is a detestable behavior in Africa. We may have emulated the west in all the other things but certainly not homo style, we can do better than that! In this respect, Africa and in deed its inhabitants should condemn the vice while at the same time keeping an eye on human rights. We can be against the vice but try and respect the value of human rights. Before we condemn homosexuals, we should first try and ascertain why they do it. Is it just a behavioral act, peer pressure, heredity or just a fantasy? With this, it would easy to deal with the act and maybe end it completely.

    We all have the right to do as we please as long as do not offend the other person but we shouldn't turn a blind eye to issues that are detrimental to societal norms. Just as we condemn unsafe sex or infidelity, the same should apply to homosexuality. It is immoral!

    Wangui, Kenya
  13. Posted on Thursday 21 August 2008 15:29
    John M
    Image of John M

    John Mahoro
    54 berichten
    Lid sinds July 2007

    To SHANE WISLON:
    You write: "This is one of the least educated and most ill-informed comments that I have read on these pages in a long time. The entire argument is flawed from its very first line, and the rest of JohnM's argument degenerates into something little better than blatant bigotry. There is no reason or sense at all in what he writes."

    Unlike you, I am putting forward arguments however 'disgusting to you' they might be. The least I would expect from you, is to provide answers rather than to judge the level of 'education' of the points I raised. Imagine if I would come back to you with words like 'most stupid comment' etc. It's a sign of weakness and failure to illustrate and defend your point. My questions were:

    - Many would be shocked to see a 50-year old father taking his 20-year daughter or son to bed. Why while both father and son/daughter have freedom of sex and are all adults?

    - What about sex with animals?

    I would highly appreciate if I could read your reflection about these two rather thought-provoking questions. From there we can politely move forward.
    Et in terra pax hominubus...
  14. Posted on Friday 22 August 2008 10:03
    Ayo
    Image of Ayo

    Ayo Ajayi
    38 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2007
    Lagos, Nigeria

    It's just unfortunate that this issue is degenetating to attacks and counter attacks on personalities rather than facing the reality. I think everyone has the right to air his or her own opinion, and not to turn the pages of our dear Africa News to junk.

    Therefore, without joining issues with anyone, I think homosexuality is a sickness of the mind. It is religious bigotry, unnatural, and scientifically imbalance. Have you not read that "a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife?" And not to his brother or sister, or another man? Have you also seen a goat having sex with dog or two bitch having sex? To produce what? Have you not heard scientifically that "opposites attracts?"

    So what is the basis for homosexuality if not disease? Infact, I feel that discussing it on this page is just giving it cheap publicity and prominence it does not deserve.

    My sincere advise to anyone involved is to submit himself to any known solutions (spiritual, natural or medical), rather than resolve to self pity and drum up support in the name of RIGHT.
  15. Posted on Friday 22 August 2008 12:36
    Mashilo Mnisi
    Image of Mashilo Mnisi

    Mashilo Mnisi
    4 berichten
    Lid sinds February 2008
    South Africa

    Dear readers - My name is Mashilo, and I work for an LGBTI media organisation and publication with specific focus on the African continent. Our role is to endeavour mainstreaming the LGBTI issues using journalism as a tool. What I have realised, I should berate of course, is the manner in which the LGBTI issues are being disseminated, particularly over media.

    To dot down some note, I would say that your wording to this discussion formulates the same problem we are trying hard to curb within the society, like as it happens with many media and publications.

    You contend sexuality - whether hetero or homo sexuality - as a choice. To purport such notion is the problem to start with because once you say it's a choice which means it affords the option... and therefore people will perceive that as a matter of trend where those people choosing that particular sexuality can be made to choose the other.

    To correct you, sexuality is not a choice, but it is natural. You are homosexual or heterosexual out of choice but of who you are, hence I tend to become a strong proponent of Sigmund Freud's theory of Psychoanalysis saying everyone is born bisexual and one only becomes either homosexual or heterosexual after rooting of sexuality becomes active... and it can become anything eventually.

    This whole exercise is so sisyphean in that people had been bombarded with damning description and information about homosexuality by the media particularly that is so sensationalist. The media plays an important role in shaping up dogmas, ethos and beliefs of people. And so the media has been disseminating scourging recounts about gay people as unhuman, un-African, un-religious and to some extent un-secular. There are many instances that discard homosexuality found in the media where homosexuals are seen as the devil, tokoloshe (the human being devil), sexual abusers, drugists, etc, etc.

    These are all not true.

    If the media could be trimmed down to adopt a responsible stance and follow its own media ethics, then a lot of misrepresentations and misinterpretaitions could be avoided, and that will engage and evetually teach the society that homosexuals are just like any other human being. The media could be a genteel stratagem to influence beliefs and values within individuals to recognise the reality. Once the media is straightened up the the rest will follow.

    Thus I appeal to newsroom managers and editors in Africa and also abroad to grap a copy of BTM's Gay man eats crocodile guideline manual which will be launched soon and make use of it because it's a good model on how to report responsibly on gay issues, and to avoid agitations.

    I'm out of here
    Mashilo Mnisi
  16. Posted on Friday 22 August 2008 16:34
    iskket
    Image of iskket


    1 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008

    My moral education thought me to love and hate. It took an effort and luck to do away with the latter as I understood that one can have no inner peace while hating. I used to love Israel and hate Arabs.
    I remember as a boy… there was a homo in our village that we thought that he was born with female and male genitals. Because his voice sounded that of a woman, didn’t have mustache and has a big bottom we assumed that his female genital was greater than that of the male. Some of my peers confirmed this assumption without of course seeing at nothing! Whenever we encountered him on the street we treated him differently and he never reacted to our curiosity and pestering. It must have been an agonizing experience for him as against for us, the kids, that was a mere curiosity to go after the different in the same way we run after a white person whenever we saw him appearing in our village. Our parents did nothing to deter our action. They never explained why that person was so different than the rest of us and I wonder if we ever asked them an explanation. In that village there was lot of pressing issues that had priorities. Let alone talking about homos, sex education was virtually unknown. Unmarried young male and female wouldn’t dare to walk together fearing their parents’ rage that has a reason of preserving virginity and avoiding unwanted pregnancy. Whether homosexuality is an inborn or a preference for sexual lust many countries and societies don’t yet know or don‘t have the preparation on how to handle it. Governments that send homos into prison are erratic. What they should do is to discern if whether this attitude is an inborn or a deliberate agenda set by ‘West’ who allowed partial freedom to homos. It’ll take a lot of time before homos see the freedom they enjoy in Europe. America and many European countries are still hostile for them let alone the Africa in chain. Homos must be free but they will only be when the society itself at first is free. Now, dig well why Africa is not free in the first place?
    Bob
    ZBB
  17. Posted on Sunday 24 August 2008 13:37
    Shane Wilson
    Image of Shane Wilson

    Shane Wilson
    5 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008
    Johannesburg South Africa

    quote:
    Ayo wrote on 22 August 2008 @ 10:03:

    Therefore, without joining issues with anyone, I think homosexuality is a sickness of the mind. It is religious bigotry, unnatural, and scientifically imbalance. Have you not read that "a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife?" And not to his brother or sister, or another man? Have you also seen a goat having sex with dog or two bitch having sex? To produce what? Have you not heard scientifically that "opposites attracts?"


    LOL, but there are PLENTY of instances of straight "macho" guys having sex with goats and dogs and cows and chickens and cats ..... and so on. And, of course, we all know what happens with so-called straight "real men" in prisons .... who gets it on top and who gets it on bottom.

    Any internet search show score upon score of so-called perversions.

    "It is religious bigotry, unnatural, and scientifically imbalance" As a scientist, I tell you that this statement is utter rubbish. As any science person will tell you, religion is the last refuge of the uneducated bigot. There is overwhelming evidence by REAL scientists that homosexuality is genetic.

    "I think homosexuality is a sickness of the mind" Again, religion also fits this role.
    goat rape.jpg
    IF IT ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE, IT IS MOST L;IKELY A LIE.
  18. Posted on Monday 25 August 2008 06:03
    jsff
    Image of jsff


    1 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008

    I think that such of a behavior is sickening; why do God created a woman? Man wasn't the only person on earth. God look at the whole situation and then created a female instead of man only. Who ever created such a sickening sexual behavior like gay is/was a devil. That individual was just trying to destroy certain cultures by putting ALL the blames of sexually diseases on that culture(s) instead of its originator. If I become a leader in any society in Africa, I WILL NEVER ALLOW SUCH A DEVILISH BEHAVIOR - THAT'S COMPLETELY SICK!!!
    quote:
    Shane Wilson wrote on 18 August 2008 @ 14:05:
    I live in South Africa, and we gay people are protected under our constitution.

    Even under Apartheid, where even to BE gay was a crime, me and Sipho were proud of being a gay couple, even through all the legalised and other hate that was directed against us. He and I loved each other deeply, and we were never ashamed of our love for each other, even if it brought danger to us (which it often did). We fought hard for freedom, not only for South Africa, but for ourselves as gay men ... and for all the other gays, too.

    We were two very ordinary men living very ordinary lives, who just happened to be in love with each other.

    I wrote this poem in memory of all of my friends who died fighting for our freedom, but especially for my boi Sipho who was murdered by apartheid agents in August 1993, just short of our tenth anniversary as a couple, and less than a year before our first democratic elections. We were both struggle activists.

    I still love Sipho, and long daily just to hear his voice again, to see his smile, to feel his touch. He taught me so much about the value of person, and about rising above the petty hatreds that we, as people, so love to fill our lives with. He was one of God's Gentlemen, and I am a far better person for having experienced the boundless joy of being his special boi.

    We gays are everywhere, in all societies. We are made by straight people! ... so you will NEVER be rid of us, no matter what you do. Increasingly we demand our rights to be who we are.

    Thanks, Sipho, you made a difference to all who knew you. Luvya umfana.

    Requiem for a Hero

    Noble comrade warrior,
    With twisted limbs athwart your breached body,
    Down deep into the dark, welcoming Afric' earth
    Your lifesblood slowly trickles.
    Your heroic soul rises
    From that cruelly shattered form,
    Which once we knew ~ and loved ~ as you,
    To be gathered to your forebears,
    There to gladly stand amidst the thronging heroes
    Who so proudly died before.

    But though your cold brow shall never know
    a loving mother's smoothing touch,
    Nor misted father's eye your final resting place behold,
    Yet we believe that you
    ~ and those that died with you ~
    Still walk your birthright land,
    And have at last received,
    From the warm, compassionate heart of Mother Africa,
    Eternal Freedom.

    And we, who now can walk our treasured land freed of oppressive yoke
    ~ free because you died ~
    Hear, in parents' easy laughter and in schoolchild's merry song,
    A faint, far-off paean of joyous liberty.
    We hear long-dead voices in the droning of the bees.
    In the wind, a ceaseless, ghostly singing,
    as from unchained souls.

    Within our hearts
    You will not die.

    Shane William Wilson.
    Johannesburg, 1995.
  19. Posted on Monday 25 August 2008 11:57
    Mashilo Mnisi
    Image of Mashilo Mnisi

    Mashilo Mnisi
    4 berichten
    Lid sinds February 2008
    South Africa

    Mashilo - Let me respond to JSFF and a whole lot of of cohorts who are proponents of the sickening backing of the bible and god in their disavow of homosexuality. I presume, and most of the time I respect, that people are rational beings and are capable of seing the fact that we're different.

    But I get sick to people who always would use the bible and thier god to reason against homosexuality. People like JSFF must wake up and start reasoning as human beings than rascals where they see the world as christians, or simply people believing that there is god. I'm not atheist but AGNOSTIC, and therefore I say there's no god. Then how do you conivince me that homosexuality is sickening wihtout reasoning about god because there is no one like that in my world... therefore I won't take you seriously.

    JSFF and the cabal, please be reasonable and see the fact that there's a secular world where people's dogmas and values are clinched on original traditional values where there's no god at play. So please stop reasoning to us with your god. I have gods and not the god described in your long old literature book - the bible, perhaps that works when you go up to the world described in your bible. It is clear that your bible is written by a stereotypical human being like yourself who only construes a world of man and woman. Phew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Mashilo Mnisi
  20. Posted on Tuesday 26 August 2008 13:08
    Shane Wilson
    Image of Shane Wilson

    Shane Wilson
    5 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008
    Johannesburg South Africa

    quote:
    jsff wrote on 25 August 2008 @ 06:03:
    I think that such of a behavior is sickening; why do God created a woman? Man wasn't the only person on earth. God look at the whole situation and then created a female instead of man only. Who ever created such a sickening sexual behavior like gay is/was a devil. That individual was just trying to destroy certain cultures by putting ALL the blames of sexually diseases on that culture(s) instead of its originator. If I become a leader in any society in Africa, I WILL NEVER ALLOW SUCH A DEVILISH BEHAVIOR - THAT'S COMPLETELY SICK!!!

    [...]


    People created their gods to give themselves the illusion of immortality, a non-existent god could not have created people; there has never, in the entire history of humankind, been any evidence of the existence of any god. Likewise, there are no devils of any kind. We are animals which get born, we sleep, we eat, we breed, and we die. That is it. You cannot prove otherwise.

    This earth is over 4.5 billion years old; it was not "created" in six days; and this mythical creation did not occur six thousand years ago.

    It is also well to remember that Christianity is not the only religion in the world; there are others, which are older and much broader in their concepts than Christianity.

    It is not gay people who barstardise animals, it is so-called straight people.

    If your god created everything, as you so erroneously claim, then your god also created all HIV and AIDS and all other sexually transmitted disease. And does not the scripture claim that god saw what he had created "and it was good"?

    Gay rights are a part of human rights.
    IF IT ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE, IT IS MOST L;IKELY A LIE.
  21. Posted on Thursday 28 August 2008 11:29
    Shane Wilson
    Image of Shane Wilson

    Shane Wilson
    5 berichten
    Lid sinds August 2008
    Johannesburg South Africa

    LET US SEE WHAT THE REAL RELIGION OF AFRICA HAS TO SAY ABOUT GAYNESS IN AFRICA, , NOT WHAT THE FOREIGN NON-AFRICAN IMPORTED RELIGIONS HAVE TO SAY

    THE ANCESTORS HAVE SPOKEN: TO BE GAY IS TO BE AFRICAN.

    Sangomas say gay life is traditional - Ancestors demand healers to be gay

    THE SOWETAN.

    03 October 2007
    Amanda Ngudle

    REAL ZULU: Thulani Mhlongo says homosexuality is African. PHOTO: SIPHIWE MALAZA

    HOMOSEXUAL: Freedom fighter and gay activist Simon Tseko Nkoli who died of AIDS on 30 November 1998, a day before World AIDS Day. Photo: PictureNET Africa
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    # The great gay debate

    Staunch Africans believe the beautiful ones are dead and that the ending is nearer than we thought.

    This is whenever the subject of homosexuality is brought up. Names like Ongqingili, Izitabane, osisi-bhuti and many such derogatory labels are still largely used, sometimes on homosexuals.

    Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe has called homosexuals “worse than dogs and pigs”.

    Yet, the male sangomas – first- hand scholars of the African tradition and culture, have come out in numbers saying they have forever been sleeping with men.

    In a film flighted on BBC last year, entitled Four Rent Boys and a Sangoma, viewers are given tales of the many reasons other men have sex with other men.

    One of the boys is Fihlo, a sangoma from Orange Farm.

    Fihlo says in the film that he receives sex from men as a spiritual exchange of energy. “A man’s semen gives me power,” he reveals.

    Fihlo believes it is his duty as a traditional healer to have sex with men. He says the ancestors prefer him to be submissive like a woman.

    Such utterances don’t bode well with affluent gay people. They feel the media has exploited the term and the gay community.

    Many feel that the people who end up giving interviews on behalf of the gay community don’t hold the candle for them.

    Thulani Mhlongo, a founder member of the Soweto HIV-Aids Counsellor Association (SOHACA), says that homosexuality is as African as Maskandi music.

    “I am as Zulu as they come and I consider myself a real Zulu. That I’m gay doesn’t make me less of a Zulu. My grandmother told me that there has always been gays.

    “There were gays in history, in the villages, there were gays in the struggle, that’s how we got to know about Simon Nkoli, the former Umkhonto we Sizwe veteran.”

    Mhlongo agrees that the onus to represent oneself lies in every gay person’s palm.

    “Of course all eyes are on us and we are harshly judged for everything, including the sins of our friends. It doesn’t have to be that way, but it is.

    “Maybe we need to participate more in dialogue involving us and our lifestyles,” he says.

    A sangoma who wished to remain anonymous says for him the homosexual lifestyle was not by choice.

    “My chief ancestor is a woman and because of this little fact, I can’t have a wife or a girlfriend and be a sangoma.

    “I’m sure you have heard of this before. Some ancestors are jealous of spouses and to live like a hermit because of a calling is unfair.”

    It’s absolutely cool to be gay

    There is nothing cooler than being gay. I support gays like abo-Somizi and his ilk 100percent. They are setting a good example to gay people. I like what they are doing.

    I hope that one day I will also come out and declare my sexual preference without fear of anybody and start enjoying my life, get myself the man of my dreams and stop playing games.
    Regards, James

    Shane Wilson modified this message on 28-08-2008 11:36 with 1%: added picture
    IF IT ISN'T BASED ON SCIENCE, IT IS MOST L;IKELY A LIE.
  22. Posted on Friday 05 September 2008 15:52
    badboyz
    Image of badboyz


    2 berichten
    Lid sinds September 2008

    This crazy yo! gay...wada hell is this, this shows that Jesus is coming soon. fuck! man with man, with all these beautiful girls in the world....
  23. Posted on Friday 05 September 2008 15:59
    badboyz
    Image of badboyz


    2 berichten
    Lid sinds September 2008

    what yo talking about yo! brother and sister getting married, man and man getting married, i think this some crazy shit. yo! better read more the Bible.
    man and man, this dam crazy yo! drinking is a sin, stealing is a sin, gay work is a sin, all the same level...but eh! yo! gay is just crazy dam. Thanks...any coment come up! yo!